Curse

Yaksha · Jul 29, 2010, 10:43 AM // 10:43

This is the first elite skill i have on my prophecies character.

Considering how much it costs, and that it only lasts 5 secs, i would have thought it'd be a rather powerful ability.

But i just don't know how to use it. Should I be trying to cast it constantly? If so, how do I do that...? The skill lasts for 5 secs, has 5 sec cooldown, but takes 2 secs to cast. Would I need some cooldown-reduction to go with it?

How useful is it? how many melee characters do i need in the party to be attacking, before it's worthwhile trying to maintain this?

what counts as a physical damage attack? Is that anything that's not a spell? (e.g. i guess it counts for ranger bow attacks, but not staff attacks. But any special skills that involve a weapon like a axe or a bow would count as well right?)

Can someone give some tips? I am a bit confused by this skill

Warvic · Jul 29, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Physical damage is a type of damage which includes three subtypes:

Blunt damage is usually dealt by hammers.
Piercing damage is usually dealt by bows, daggers, and spears.
Slashing damage is usually dealt by swords, axes, daggers, and scythes.

It's worthwile to maintain if u have enough physical damage dealers in your party. If u have like 1 physical damage dealer in your party, it's not super usefull.

Quote:

Synergizes well with attack skills which hit multiple foes, such as Barrage or Whirlwind Attack.

Info from wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Main_Page

Xenomortis · Jul 29, 2010, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Unless you're playing with an organised group of humans, it's not worthwhile.
Your best bet is to hold on until you can get the elite skill "Spiteful Spirit".

loopysnoopy · Jul 29, 2010, 02:58 PM // 14:58

While cures line and death are quite popular i my self like to go with blood and soul magic and just be a melee supporter with monk as secondary or rit but since your prophs based monk is 1 of the best to be with or Mesmer

so that then makes Order of the vampire worth while so u cud be come a BiP

So it depends on you do you want to pursue the blood line curses is easier

if you do try and bring henchmen more then 1 tho warriors with a monk and mes

Skyy High · Jul 29, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

Considering how much it costs, and that it only lasts 5 secs, i would have thought it'd be a rather powerful ability.

A common misconception. Elites are not always simply "powerful abilities"; sometimes they're just a more powerful version of a non-elite (Order of Pain, in this case), sometimes they're specialty skills that are potential powerful but often weak, sometimes they're skills that would be ridiculously powerful if they could be paired with other elites, and sometimes they're skills that are so useful you would always bring it if it didn't clash with another elite you want to bring.

Hells Fury · Jul 29, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Unless you're playing with an organised group of humans, it's not worthwhile.
Your best bet is to hold on until you can get the elite skill "Discord".

Fixed that for you.

maxxfury · Jul 29, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52

No, really, No... discord is passable on a HERO as you can macro a spike with 3 discords, ylmad and fh..

...100% waste on a player when you have access to Necrosis...

if your speccing death for discord, then your gonna be running minions, and OuD is WAAAYY better for a player....

I almost died a little in side having to type this out...

SS, AP, OuD are the elites you should try to get your hands on first imo..and just leave disco to the heros.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

A common misconception. Elites are not always simply "powerful abilities"; sometimes they're just a more powerful version of a non-elite (Order of Pain, in this case),

When your runnign a phys way, unless you Need the extraheal from the life steal, order of pain's damage out put is a LOT higher when you factor in your physicals running Buh, Ascan ect ^ Also lets you use cultists fervour with OOP so you can more easily maintain Soh's, gdws, and clean up the fronline.

Xenomortis · Jul 29, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Darkblight

Fixed that for you.

You're wrong. Discord on a human is not a good choice and is merely a passable damage spell.
Also note that Discord is a Factions skill and the OP is in Prophecies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

if your speccing death for discord, then your gonna be running minions, and OuD is WAAAYY better for a player....

I would not recommend Order of Undeath to a new player or necromancer. OoU is not a particularly easy build to run effectively - it's very energy intensive and the sacrifice costs are huge. It's best the player learns minion management first and so elites like Aura of the Lich or even Flesh Golem are more appropriate.

maxxfury · Jul 29, 2010, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I would not recommend Order of Undeath to a new player or necromancer. OoU is not a particularly easy build to run effectively - it's very energy intensive and the sacrifice costs are huge. It's best the player learns minion management first and so elites like Aura of the Lich or even Flesh Golem are more appropriate.

Yeah good point Xeno

Tho rather clumsily i was recommending a better elite than Disco

Skyy High · Jul 29, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

When your runnign a phys way, unless you Need the extraheal from the life steal, order of pain's damage out put is a LOT higher when you factor in your physicals running Buh, Ascan ect ^ Also lets you use cultists fervour with OOP so you can more easily maintain Soh's, gdws, and clean up the fronline.

Other than the fact that you can mix necro enchants with OoP, I don't see why OoV would be worse on a physical team. The damage is the same, yes?

Khomet Si Netjer · Jul 29, 2010, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

This is the first elite skill i have on my prophecies character.

Considering how much it costs, and that it only lasts 5 secs, i would have thought it'd be a rather powerful ability.

But i just don't know how to use it. Should I be trying to cast it constantly? If so, how do I do that...? The skill lasts for 5 secs, has 5 sec cooldown, but takes 2 secs to cast. Would I need some cooldown-reduction to go with it?

How useful is it? how many melee characters do i need in the party to be attacking, before it's worthwhile trying to maintain this?

what counts as a physical damage attack? Is that anything that's not a spell? (e.g. i guess it counts for ranger bow attacks, but not staff attacks. But any special skills that involve a weapon like a axe or a bow would count as well right?)

Can someone give some tips? I am a bit confused by this skill

Hi Yaksha,
This skill can be extremely powerful with the right sort of team.
Let me explain...

At 15 blood magic it will do 16 lifestealing per hit, and it will last 6 seconds if you have a +20% enchanting weapon. If each physical attacker can hit once per second this is 6 hits in 6 seconds, which comes out to 96 lifestealing (16 x 6) per character affected by the spell.

In other words, every physical attacker in the group can deliver the equivalent of +96 damage and receive 96 points of 'healing' per application of this spell. For 8 characters that can add up to 760+ points of damage per cast and 760+ health gained from the lifestealing. Isn't that worth 5 energy? :-D

Xenomortis · Jul 29, 2010, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Other than the fact that you can mix necro enchants with OoP, I don't see why OoV would be worse on a physical team. The damage is the same, yes?

The PvE-only skills "By Ural's Hammer!" and "Asuran Scan" increase your total damage output by a fixed percentage. This multiplier affects the extra damage done by Order of Pain (it adds to your damage before the effect of BuH and AS). Asuran Scan effectively makes OoP do 10 (or more) more damage per hit
However since OotV causes life steal, not damage, it is not affected by the damage multiplier given by BuH or AS.

In short, Order of Pain has more damage potential in the right setup, but is more expensive. Order of the Vampire is cheaper and makes your frontline that bit more durable, but costs your elite and cannot be used with any other necromancer enchantments.

Lettuce Leaf · Aug 02, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

To be honest I've never used it but picture this your playing with a friend he balls up all the guys and he hits whirlwind ( NF skill but let's say he has it ) it's going be pretty effective but I'm going to say that once you aquire SS or AotL that would be your best bet for a while.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 04, 2010, 09:36 AM // 09:36

The choice between OotV and OoP is simple: if you need to use other Necro enchants on your team then you go with OoP.

Use of OotV isn't that difficult, you can't maintain it unless you are have a way to half skill recharge, but you can still get decent coverage with a 20% enchant weapon (6/7 seconds is 85% coverage - rounded down - if you use on recharge).

Xenomortis · Aug 04, 2010, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

The choice between OotV and OoP is simple: if you need to use other Necro enchants on your team then you go with OoP.

No it isn't. The lifesteal from OotV isn't inherently better than the damage boost from OoP.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 04, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

When u have as many Physicals as u need to make Orders worth it in the 1st place you're not going to need the 10 more damage from layering OoP+BUH/AScan. Unless u NEED the Orders carrying another Elite, OotV provides more with the dual functionality of lifesteal.

Xenomortis · Aug 04, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

When u have as many Physicals as u need to make Orders worth it in the 1st place you're not going to need the 10 more damage from layering OoP+BUH/AScan. Unless u NEED the Orders carrying another Elite, OotV provides more with the dual functionality of lifesteal.

Orders is worthwhile with any number of physicals- although only having one or two makes it more questionable.
Before the update to Blood Bond I would agree on your reasoning, but now I don't - the lifesteal is superfluous now with that insane skill.
And 10-15 extra damage is always nice - that's like having another damage buff.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 04, 2010, 07:03 PM // 19:03

The Blood Bond update did buff the hell out of it for healing, but with many players running Hero+Henchmen teams the argument for PvE skills is moot. I use OotV+BBond, personally.

Even WITH a full Player/Human team I'd rather leave PvE skillslot options open. AScan, definitely take it. BUH, depends.

maxxfury · Aug 04, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Running cultists fervour + Oop over OoV also gives the advantage of a crap load more blue bar for maintaining soh's ect and cleaning the phys ^

so it really only depends if you want the extra pressure heals with the lifesteals, or if you are gonna need the extra blue bar to clean with in high(er than normal) condition/hex heavy areas..
for me, keeping the melee clean is a higher priority, as with orders your most likely gonna be rocking a phys heavy team setup and a dirty melee aint doing any damage, causing more pressure than the life steal would have mopped up due to having mobs live longer, and with 4~ phys, that can get quite taxing on your blue's..

Carinae · Aug 21, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

When u have as many Physicals as u need to make Orders worth it in the 1st place you're not going to need the 10 more damage from layering OoP+BUH/AScan. Unless u NEED the Orders carrying another Elite, OotV provides more with the dual functionality of lifesteal.

Sorry for joining the conversation late...

While OotV+BB is a nice combo in that it provides un-protable damage and healing to the frontline, I'd still say that OoP+DF is a better combo for allowing the same frontliners to spam SY. Whatever healing they get from OotV is more than compensated by the +100 armor to the entire party. Not to mention the additional damage from AS and possibly BuH.

Given that those very same frontliners are your SY spammers, I have to go with OoP+DF because it simply outclasses OotV+BB in physway.